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	<title>Comments on: Native &#8220;SSH&#8221; on Windows via WS-Management</title>
	<atom:link href="http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816</link>
	<description>IT management in a changing IT world</description>
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		<title>By: William Vambenepe</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-99672</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-99672</guid>
		<description>Hi Erich,

Thanks for the comment. Here are my responses:

On (1): yes I know but you can&#039;t SSH to most Windows machines, unless you&#039;ve installed a listener there ahead of time. The point of my post is not to tell people to use WS-Management instead of SSH. It&#039;s to tell them that they can use WS-Management when SSH is not an option.

On (2): I didn&#039;t touch on security, but the spec provide a list of profiles that you can choose from. See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc251749%28PROT.10%29.aspx

On (3): Yes, this is different from SSH in the sense that it only gives you access to one runtime. Which has pros (consistency) and cons (you have to use PowerShell). They are not quite the same beast.

Another major drawback of what I describe is that it is pretty new and not widely available in the Windows environments out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Erich,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment. Here are my responses:</p>
<p>On (1): yes I know but you can&#8217;t SSH to most Windows machines, unless you&#8217;ve installed a listener there ahead of time. The point of my post is not to tell people to use WS-Management instead of SSH. It&#8217;s to tell them that they can use WS-Management when SSH is not an option.</p>
<p>On (2): I didn&#8217;t touch on security, but the spec provide a list of profiles that you can choose from. See <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc251749%28PROT.10%29.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc251749%28PROT.10%29.aspx</a></p>
<p>On (3): Yes, this is different from SSH in the sense that it only gives you access to one runtime. Which has pros (consistency) and cons (you have to use PowerShell). They are not quite the same beast.</p>
<p>Another major drawback of what I describe is that it is pretty new and not widely available in the Windows environments out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-99645</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-99645</guid>
		<description>William,

I respectfully submit the following: 

1. ssh the protocol allows for everything you have described above and more. Look at the paramiko ssh library for python, you can do everything described above, and more.

2. there is no mention of security here, and this is the biggest feature of ssh. Does this ws management stuff allow me to have a cryptographically secure channel to the remote host? does it do key verification? does it allow for secure authenication chaining (that is i can log into host a, then log into host b from a, without host b ever seeing my private key)?

3. The command line ssh client does not do some of the stuff you describe, i&#039;ll concede that, however it may not be the job of the ssh client to ensure the remote host&#039;s environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William,</p>
<p>I respectfully submit the following: </p>
<p>1. ssh the protocol allows for everything you have described above and more. Look at the paramiko ssh library for python, you can do everything described above, and more.</p>
<p>2. there is no mention of security here, and this is the biggest feature of ssh. Does this ws management stuff allow me to have a cryptographically secure channel to the remote host? does it do key verification? does it allow for secure authenication chaining (that is i can log into host a, then log into host b from a, without host b ever seeing my private key)?</p>
<p>3. The command line ssh client does not do some of the stuff you describe, i&#8217;ll concede that, however it may not be the job of the ssh client to ensure the remote host&#8217;s environment.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; REST in practice for IT and Cloud management (part 1: Cloud APIs)</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-79564</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; REST in practice for IT and Cloud management (part 1: Cloud APIs)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-79564</guid>
		<description>[...] apps when the state of the art was a CGI Perl script, who loves on-the-wire protocols (e.g. this recent exploration of the Windows management stack from an on-the-wire perspective), who is happy to deal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] apps when the state of the art was a CGI Perl script, who loves on-the-wire protocols (e.g. this recent exploration of the Windows management stack from an on-the-wire perspective), who is happy to deal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Uploading a file to a Windows machine via WMI/WS-Management</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-77680</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Uploading a file to a Windows machine via WMI/WS-Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-77680</guid>
		<description>[...] with alternate solutions, like the remote shell extension to WS-Management that I have described as &#8220;dumb SSH&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] with alternate solutions, like the remote shell extension to WS-Management that I have described as &#8220;dumb SSH&#8221; [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SSH nativo en Windows &#171; El camello, el León y el niño. O la evolución del perro al lobo.</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-77672</link>
		<dc:creator>SSH nativo en Windows &#171; El camello, el León y el niño. O la evolución del perro al lobo.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-77672</guid>
		<description>[...] 29/06/2009 de javcasta    Native “SSH” on Windows via WS-Management [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 29/06/2009 de javcasta    Native “SSH” on Windows via WS-Management [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Whose ******* idea was this?</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-77253</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Whose ******* idea was this?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-77253</guid>
		<description>[...] last two entries have been uncharacteristically Microsoft-friendly, so it&#8217;s time to restore some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] last two entries have been uncharacteristically Microsoft-friendly, so it&#8217;s time to restore some [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: William Vambenepe</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-77184</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-77184</guid>
		<description>Lance,

I&#039;ll admit that the first paragraph is a bit exaggerated, as an attention grabber. But I clarify this right away at the start of the second paragraph (&quot;OK, so it’s not exactly SSH&quot;).

The point here is that from the point of view of IT management people (readers of this blog), it does what we use SSH for. Today, we connect over SSH to drop scripts and execute them. I understand that there are many other usages of SSH (I mention checking email using mutt in the blog) for which this is not all that useful (emacs, irc, etc are other examples). Clearly, this is a management API, not something as generic and flexible as SSH. Maybe it would be more appropriate to compare it to JMX on steroids (JMX which, BTW, can also run on top of WS-Management). And I am sure that aspect will come up if/when time comes for standardization of the protocol.

But the fact remain that, in the IT management community, there are lots of things commonly done with Unix boxes using SSH that you can&#039;t do on Windows (at least not natively) and this protocol will provide a native alternative on Windows. In that respect, it is SSH-like for us IT management monkeys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit that the first paragraph is a bit exaggerated, as an attention grabber. But I clarify this right away at the start of the second paragraph (&#8220;OK, so it’s not exactly SSH&#8221;).</p>
<p>The point here is that from the point of view of IT management people (readers of this blog), it does what we use SSH for. Today, we connect over SSH to drop scripts and execute them. I understand that there are many other usages of SSH (I mention checking email using mutt in the blog) for which this is not all that useful (emacs, irc, etc are other examples). Clearly, this is a management API, not something as generic and flexible as SSH. Maybe it would be more appropriate to compare it to JMX on steroids (JMX which, BTW, can also run on top of WS-Management). And I am sure that aspect will come up if/when time comes for standardization of the protocol.</p>
<p>But the fact remain that, in the IT management community, there are lots of things commonly done with Unix boxes using SSH that you can&#8217;t do on Windows (at least not natively) and this protocol will provide a native alternative on Windows. In that respect, it is SSH-like for us IT management monkeys.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lance Robinson</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/816#comment-77183</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/?p=816#comment-77183</guid>
		<description>Its curious and unfortunate that you&#039;ve mis-used the name &quot;SSH&quot; here.  That is not even close to what this is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its curious and unfortunate that you&#8217;ve mis-used the name &#8220;SSH&#8221; here.  That is not even close to what this is.</p>
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