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	<title>Comments on: BPMN to BPEL: going to battle with one hand tied?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177</link>
	<description>William Vambenepe&#039;s stage</description>
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		<title>By: Azhar</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Azhar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-193</guid>
		<description>HI,
I want to know what are current issues and challenges in the transformation of BPMN to BPEL. Can anyone help...........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI,<br />
I want to know what are current issues and challenges in the transformation of BPMN to BPEL. Can anyone help&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BPM &#124; BPMN and BPEL: there is no conflict &#124; VOSibilities</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>BPM &#124; BPMN and BPEL: there is no conflict &#124; VOSibilities</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-192</guid>
		<description>[...] that Tom Baeyens’ linked to when he claimed that that “the translation step from BPMN to BPEL is very problematic to say the [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that Tom Baeyens’ linked to when he claimed that that “the translation step from BPMN to BPEL is very problematic to say the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BPMN-to-BPELにおける課題：第1回 &#171; 岩田研究所</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>BPMN-to-BPELにおける課題：第1回 &#171; 岩田研究所</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-191</guid>
		<description>[...] BPMN-to-BPELにおける課題：第1回  2008年4月15日 コメントをどうぞ コメントへ    つい最近のことですが、BPMNとBPELの連携についてWebで大討論会が繰り広げられていました。WilliamVambenepe氏の ブログにKeithSwenson氏が ブログでコメントし、そのコメントにBruce Silver氏がブログ（ その1と その2）でコメントしたものです。しかもそれぞれのブログに多くの人がコメントを寄せており、全てに目を通すのはかなり大変ですが、BPMNとBPELの連携における様々な課題や方向性が見えてきます。 まずは、これら討論の背景として BPMNはビジネスプロセス管理において最重要な標準という前提がある、ということを認識する必要があります。コメントを寄せている人の中にはそれを否定している人もいますが、ITの視点ではなく本来あるべきビジネスの視点で考えるとBPEL以上にBPMNが重要だということです。 BPMNありきで考えると、討論されている課題が解決するまでは、BPMNで描いたモデルをBPELに変換せずに実行するエンジンを選択するという方向性もありますが、大手ベンダのBPELエンジンが選択されるケースが多いことも考えると、BPMNをBPELに変換するツールがどこまで課題に対応できているかをしっかりと評価して実用的なツールを選択する必要もあります。そのためにも課題を理解しておくことが大切だと思います。 そこで、何回かに分けて、討論されている課題について補足する情報を交えて紹介していきたいと思います。 [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BPMN-to-BPELにおける課題：第1回  2008年4月15日 コメントをどうぞ コメントへ    つい最近のことですが、BPMNとBPELの連携についてWebで大討論会が繰り広げられていました。WilliamVambenepe氏の ブログにKeithSwenson氏が ブログでコメントし、そのコメントにBruce Silver氏がブログ（ その1と その2）でコメントしたものです。しかもそれぞれのブログに多くの人がコメントを寄せており、全てに目を通すのはかなり大変ですが、BPMNとBPELの連携における様々な課題や方向性が見えてきます。 まずは、これら討論の背景として BPMNはビジネスプロセス管理において最重要な標準という前提がある、ということを認識する必要があります。コメントを寄せている人の中にはそれを否定している人もいますが、ITの視点ではなく本来あるべきビジネスの視点で考えるとBPEL以上にBPMNが重要だということです。 BPMNありきで考えると、討論されている課題が解決するまでは、BPMNで描いたモデルをBPELに変換せずに実行するエンジンを選択するという方向性もありますが、大手ベンダのBPELエンジンが選択されるケースが多いことも考えると、BPMNをBPELに変換するツールがどこまで課題に対応できているかをしっかりと評価して実用的なツールを選択する必要もあります。そのためにも課題を理解しておくことが大切だと思います。 そこで、何回かに分けて、討論されている課題について補足する情報を交えて紹介していきたいと思います。 [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BPEL vs BPMN &#171; Crónicas de un Arquitecto de Software</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>BPEL vs BPMN &#171; Crónicas de un Arquitecto de Software</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-190</guid>
		<description>[...] lenguaje para el modelado de procesos de negocio en forma de flujos de trabajo. De tal manera que una conversión de BPMN a BPEL no hace mucho sentido (aunque sea posible) y tampoco el usar BPEL para modelado de procesos de [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lenguaje para el modelado de procesos de negocio en forma de flujos de trabajo. De tal manera que una conversión de BPMN a BPEL no hace mucho sentido (aunque sea posible) y tampoco el usar BPEL para modelado de procesos de [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sandeep</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>sandeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Hi,

Does that mean BPEL will be replaced soon by BPMN?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Does that mean BPEL will be replaced soon by BPMN?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; BPEL as a source of application management metadata</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; BPEL as a source of application management metadata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-188</guid>
		<description>[...] analyst (a topic that has been discussed at length already, including here, here, here, here, here, here and around the 5 minute mark of this podcast). Today, let&#8217;s look at it as simply [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] analyst (a topic that has been discussed at length already, including here, here, here, here, here, here and around the 5 minute mark of this podcast). Today, let&#8217;s look at it as simply [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-187</guid>
		<description>I see this specific scenario as a non-process concern. It would more likely be implemented in a human task processor. From a process perspective a review should be completed, that&#039;s it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see this specific scenario as a non-process concern. It would more likely be implemented in a human task processor. From a process perspective a review should be completed, that&#8217;s it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BPMS Watch &#187; More on BPMN-to-BPEL</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>BPMS Watch &#187; More on BPMN-to-BPEL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-186</guid>
		<description>[...] given me a much better appreciation of the problem.  The problem Keith mentions is from a post by William Vambenepe who bemoans the fact that a BPMN OR-split and join in Oracle BPA Suite generates a slightly more [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] given me a much better appreciation of the problem.  The problem Keith mentions is from a post by William Vambenepe who bemoans the fact that a BPMN OR-split and join in Oracle BPA Suite generates a slightly more [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WYDIWYE: The Answer to BPEL Transform Problems &#171; Go Flow</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>WYDIWYE: The Answer to BPEL Transform Problems &#171; Go Flow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 05:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-185</guid>
		<description>[...] April 3, 2008    I just want to highlight an excellent post by William Vambenepe on the subject of BPMN to BPEL: going to battle with one hand tied? He does a very simple experiment: draw a meaningful diagram in BPMN, in this case a fairly simple [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] April 3, 2008    I just want to highlight an excellent post by William Vambenepe on the subject of BPMN to BPEL: going to battle with one hand tied? He does a very simple experiment: draw a meaningful diagram in BPMN, in this case a fairly simple [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Vambenepe</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-184</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jean-Jacques.

Anyone who wants to think more deeply about this topic (and who likes to approach problems by looking for their underlying causes) should go read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.infoq.com/articles/seven-fallacies-of-bpm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JJ&#039;s article&lt;/a&gt; at InfoQ for some food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jean-Jacques.</p>
<p>Anyone who wants to think more deeply about this topic (and who likes to approach problems by looking for their underlying causes) should go read <a href="http://www.infoq.com/articles/seven-fallacies-of-bpm" rel="nofollow">JJ&#8217;s article</a> at InfoQ for some food for thought.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jean-Jacques Dubray</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean-Jacques Dubray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-183</guid>
		<description>William:

I don&#039;t know if you saw this article I wrote on a possible relationship between  BPEL and BPMN. I am not sure the two can ever be mapped to each other nor it is desirable. 

http://www.infoq.com/articles/seven-fallacies-of-bpm

The article also links to some work done by Marlon Dumas about lisibility &amp; round-tripping. You will also find a link in the comments to a talented researcher at IBM Zurich: Ksenia Ryndina 

JJ-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you saw this article I wrote on a possible relationship between  BPEL and BPMN. I am not sure the two can ever be mapped to each other nor it is desirable. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.infoq.com/articles/seven-fallacies-of-bpm" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoq.com/articles/seven-fallacies-of-bpm</a></p>
<p>The article also links to some work done by Marlon Dumas about lisibility &amp; round-tripping. You will also find a link in the comments to a talented researcher at IBM Zurich: Ksenia Ryndina </p>
<p>JJ-</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BPMN to BPEL: going to battle with one hand tied? &#171; Baharé R. Heravi</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>BPMN to BPEL: going to battle with one hand tied? &#171; Baharé R. Heravi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-182</guid>
		<description>[...] the complete article by William [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the complete article by William [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tammo</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/177#comment-181</guid>
		<description>Nice post. In my opinion the major problem is the lack of well-defined operational semantics in BPMN. The example in your post turns actually out to be a problem because the BPMN diagram is underspecified. What happens if none of the parties do a review? Is there a time out? What happens if a reviewer rejects the quote?
No wonder that it&#039;s getting difficult to translate it into a technical process definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. In my opinion the major problem is the lack of well-defined operational semantics in BPMN. The example in your post turns actually out to be a problem because the BPMN diagram is underspecified. What happens if none of the parties do a review? Is there a time out? What happens if a reviewer rejects the quote?<br />
No wonder that it&#8217;s getting difficult to translate it into a technical process definition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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