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	<title>Comments on: JSR262 (JMX over WS-Management) public review</title>
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	<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167</link>
	<description>William Vambenepe&#039;s stage</description>
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		<title>By: vbp</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>vbp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-161</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the insight Éamonn, this is very helpful in understanding what is going on with JSR262.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the insight Éamonn, this is very helpful in understanding what is going on with JSR262.</p>
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		<title>By: Éamonn McManus</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Éamonn McManus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-160</guid>
		<description>William,

You are right that the JSR 262 standard really only proposes another plumbing possibility for JMX instrumentation.  The JSR is chartered to produce a &quot;connector&quot;, which in JMX terminology means a way for a remote client to see essentially the same JMX interface as a local client.  This is of interest for several reasons, some of which you mention.  One is simpler configuration in the presence of firewalls.  A second is the ability to reuse a web server configuration (ports, security, and so on) that may already be present in an application.  And a third is access from non-Java languages, notably scripting languages.  (Imagine a perl script that needs to grab the value of a JMX attribute, for example.)

You are also right that the JSR doesn&#039;t go as far as it might, and in particular it doesn&#039;t address how one might go about linking a JMX agent into a management infrastructure where the management interfaces are not primarily defined through JMX MBeans.  For example, one where the interfaces are defined through CIM.  In JMX terminology, that is where you would use an &quot;adaptor&quot; rather than a connector.  An adaptor converts from a protocol that is unrelated to the JMX world, such as SNMP or HTML/HTTP or WS-CIM, into requests on JMX MBeans.  With a WS-Management adaptor, you would be able to use JMX as an implementation technology to create a WS-Management agent that respects a pre-existing model.

Defining an adaptor is beyond the scope of JSR 262, but in fact we include one with the Reference Implementation, which you can download from http://ws-jmx-connector.dev.java.net .  That defines an API that you can use to construct a JMX implementation of a pre-existing model.  In particular we&#039;ve prototyped its use for WS-CIM.  There might be another JSR in there somewhere.

Regards,
Éamonn McManus, JSR 262 Specification Lead</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William,</p>
<p>You are right that the JSR 262 standard really only proposes another plumbing possibility for JMX instrumentation.  The JSR is chartered to produce a &#8220;connector&#8221;, which in JMX terminology means a way for a remote client to see essentially the same JMX interface as a local client.  This is of interest for several reasons, some of which you mention.  One is simpler configuration in the presence of firewalls.  A second is the ability to reuse a web server configuration (ports, security, and so on) that may already be present in an application.  And a third is access from non-Java languages, notably scripting languages.  (Imagine a perl script that needs to grab the value of a JMX attribute, for example.)</p>
<p>You are also right that the JSR doesn&#8217;t go as far as it might, and in particular it doesn&#8217;t address how one might go about linking a JMX agent into a management infrastructure where the management interfaces are not primarily defined through JMX MBeans.  For example, one where the interfaces are defined through CIM.  In JMX terminology, that is where you would use an &#8220;adaptor&#8221; rather than a connector.  An adaptor converts from a protocol that is unrelated to the JMX world, such as SNMP or HTML/HTTP or WS-CIM, into requests on JMX MBeans.  With a WS-Management adaptor, you would be able to use JMX as an implementation technology to create a WS-Management agent that respects a pre-existing model.</p>
<p>Defining an adaptor is beyond the scope of JSR 262, but in fact we include one with the Reference Implementation, which you can download from <a href="http://ws-jmx-connector.dev.java.net" rel="nofollow">http://ws-jmx-connector.dev.java.net</a> .  That defines an API that you can use to construct a JMX implementation of a pre-existing model.  In particular we&#8217;ve prototyped its use for WS-CIM.  There might be another JSR in there somewhere.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Éamonn McManus, JSR 262 Specification Lead</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: People Over Process &#187; links for 2008-02-20</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>People Over Process &#187; links for 2008-02-20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-159</guid>
		<description>[...] JSR262 (JMX over WS-Management) public review (tags: jmx itmanagement jsr262 java wsmanagement) [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] JSR262 (JMX over WS-Management) public review (tags: jmx itmanagement jsr262 java wsmanagement) [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: William Louth</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>William Louth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Well every year I submit a one or two sessions to JavaOne on software performance engineering, resource metering (probes), and runtime state diagnostics for improved production problem resolution and each year this get pushed aside for the latest fade not even in reach of a production server. I did speak at two previous JavaOne conferences on EJB and Java EE when that was the thing to do but I seem to be in a field now that seems boring to most who just want to attend 10 sessions or more on scripting in Java with another language. Also I think being a Sun employee seems to guarantee slot irrespective whether you JSR is actually designed well (I could not stand to see another mbean type or server connection interface whilst the model issues are not addressed). 

Kind regards,

William</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well every year I submit a one or two sessions to JavaOne on software performance engineering, resource metering (probes), and runtime state diagnostics for improved production problem resolution and each year this get pushed aside for the latest fade not even in reach of a production server. I did speak at two previous JavaOne conferences on EJB and Java EE when that was the thing to do but I seem to be in a field now that seems boring to most who just want to attend 10 sessions or more on scripting in Java with another language. Also I think being a Sun employee seems to guarantee slot irrespective whether you JSR is actually designed well (I could not stand to see another mbean type or server connection interface whilst the model issues are not addressed). </p>
<p>Kind regards,</p>
<p>William</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vbp</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>vbp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Hi William L. This makes sense, but it&#039;s more applicable to JSR255 (version 2.0 of the JMX API) than to JSR262. BTW, Eamonn and JF Denise will be &lt;a href=&quot;http://weblogs.java.net/blog/emcmanus/archive/2008/02/speaking_at_jav.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;speaking about both of them at the upcoming JavaOne&lt;/a&gt;, so that would be a good place to bring up these questions if you are going to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi William L. This makes sense, but it&#8217;s more applicable to JSR255 (version 2.0 of the JMX API) than to JSR262. BTW, Eamonn and JF Denise will be <a href="http://weblogs.java.net/blog/emcmanus/archive/2008/02/speaking_at_jav.html" rel="nofollow">speaking about both of them at the upcoming JavaOne</a>, so that would be a good place to bring up these questions if you are going to be there.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: William Louth</title>
		<link>http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>William Louth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stage.vambenepe.com/archives/167#comment-156</guid>
		<description>Hi William,

From an instrumentation perspective I am very disappointed that we have an API that really does not know which world it wants to be in - old or new. Whilst it offers a simplistic, generic (and rarely contextual) management interface to remote system management tool vendors it offers very little to the developer and performance engineer trying to understand how metrics are (or should be) constructed and related. This appears to be left to a string description in the MBean attribute and for each MBean developer to write his own metric aggregation code again and again. JMX to metric monitoring is like Java Logging to CEP. But the worse mistake is that performance of the local call interface JMX makes it unsuitable for local agent fine grain correlation with relatively small event (request, transaction, invocation) intervals ensuring the system monitoring model and software execution models stay worlds apart when this should not be the case. 

I understand your focus is on the integration and control surface and mine on the instrumentation to construct a model with the ability to comprehend and reason.

I have previously written up some thoughts on this area on my blog.

Benchmark Analysis
http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=211

JXInsight 6.0 Metrica
http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=209
 
A Good Metric is Transparent
http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=147

William Louth
JXInsight Product Architect
CTO, JINSPIRED

&quot;Performance monitoring and Problem diagnostics for Java EE, SOA, and Grid Computing&quot;
http://www.jinspired.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi William,</p>
<p>From an instrumentation perspective I am very disappointed that we have an API that really does not know which world it wants to be in &#8211; old or new. Whilst it offers a simplistic, generic (and rarely contextual) management interface to remote system management tool vendors it offers very little to the developer and performance engineer trying to understand how metrics are (or should be) constructed and related. This appears to be left to a string description in the MBean attribute and for each MBean developer to write his own metric aggregation code again and again. JMX to metric monitoring is like Java Logging to CEP. But the worse mistake is that performance of the local call interface JMX makes it unsuitable for local agent fine grain correlation with relatively small event (request, transaction, invocation) intervals ensuring the system monitoring model and software execution models stay worlds apart when this should not be the case. </p>
<p>I understand your focus is on the integration and control surface and mine on the instrumentation to construct a model with the ability to comprehend and reason.</p>
<p>I have previously written up some thoughts on this area on my blog.</p>
<p>Benchmark Analysis<br />
<a href="http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=211" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=211</a></p>
<p>JXInsight 6.0 Metrica<br />
<a href="http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=209" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=209</a></p>
<p>A Good Metric is Transparent<br />
<a href="http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=147" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jinspired.com/?p=147</a></p>
<p>William Louth<br />
JXInsight Product Architect<br />
CTO, JINSPIRED</p>
<p>&#8220;Performance monitoring and Problem diagnostics for Java EE, SOA, and Grid Computing&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.jinspired.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.jinspired.com</a></p>
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